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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 5 post(s) |
Lilith Velkor
Minmatar
Beyond Divinity Inc
Beyond Virginity
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Posted - 2009.11.14 05:53:00 -
[1]
Hmm, they will be able to dock?
Correct me if I got the numbers all wrong as I'm no expert at docking games and dont own a MS to actually check the stats, but...
- around 30mill EHP?
- 30 second dock timer? Or is it 60?
-> 500k / 1mill dps to pop a MS playing the dock game? Thats like, 400-800 well-fit battleships, or 100-200 dreads?
Do the nodes even handle dumping that many ships into the system at once?
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Lilith Velkor
Minmatar
Beyond Divinity Inc
Beyond Virginity
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Posted - 2009.11.14 15:03:00 -
[2]
 Originally by: McFly
As a counterpoint to the proliferation of the ships due to docking, most will probably never undock as most lowsec is patrolled by badasses like Cry Havoc or Beyond Divinity with Dread Fleets Hotdrop Ready. We will see some funny failmails I can guarantee that.
Yea, we are totally gonna drop 200 dreads on a MS...
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Lilith Velkor
Minmatar
Beyond Divinity Inc
Beyond Virginity
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Posted - 2009.11.16 22:07:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Thargorr
Soooo now that Titans are useless and Motherships are just regular ole' carriers what's the point of HICs (who were introduced as the one shiptype that could tackle supercaps)?
Well, they still are the only shiptype that can tackle supercaps in lowsec, pretty much the only viable gate tackler for small outlaw gangs and the only tackler that ignores warpcore stabs. I cant actually remember having ever tackled a supercap in mine.
About the recent changes, what I have the biggest issue to see the reason for are
- reduced build cost: makes them too affordable, its supposed to be an effort getting into one, and 6-9bill arent all that much.
- docking: thats just opening a huge can of worms regarding the ever popular docking games, no sane person will deny there is a big issue there. Also platinum insurance additionaly reduces the loss factor way too much, sure they should be used on the field but losing one should mean something.
About the damage output I'm not really sure, +2 fighters / lvl seems decent given the huge HP boost they got, and taking into account they are meant to be used against capitals now reducing dps against subcaps isnt really that horrible.
Damage output against dreads would need to be looked at though, easiest fix for that one would be a flat 1k increase in sig radius from the siege module.
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Lilith Velkor
Minmatar
Beyond Divinity Inc
Beyond Virginity
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Posted - 2009.11.17 00:10:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Jenessa
And this rubbish about docking games, you mean like carriers do now? I mean whats the difference between the two when it comes to that kinda stuff? Or are people just moaning about how frustrating they might feel to fire on a SC on a station and then see it dock like dreads/carriers do now. Oh no how awful!! 
The difference should not be that hard to figure out if you look at the HP values.
While ganking a regular carrier / dread is not an easy task by any means, there are quite a few entities that can rally the needed 15 dreads to ensure a kill before they can deagress. Nothing every 100-member corp in the game can pull off easily, but quite a few can.
15 players plus cyno bait to handle a single player, not exactly well-scaled but whatever, its still in the realm of the regular blobbing.
Now being able to rally 100+ dreads to ensure the kill on a supercarrier, that is completely out of the question for medium-sized entities that dont own isk-printing moons.
100 players plus cyno bait to handle a single player, roughly 250bill in assets on the line, given the actual damage you can inflict that is completely and utterly out of whack.
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Lilith Velkor
Minmatar
Beyond Divinity Inc
Beyond Virginity
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Posted - 2009.11.17 00:39:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Jenessa
But common sense would dictate to people surely that going for a SC on a station is a waste of time and not to bother. You're not gonna kill it on a station, end of story so don't even try.
Exactly, thats the issue there. Makes sense to go try to gank a carrier that way and many can do it, but not a SC, even if you are part of the very few that could.
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Lilith Velkor
Minmatar
Beyond Divinity Inc
Beyond Virginity
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Posted - 2009.11.17 02:28:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Jenessa
Infact letting SC's dock makes some scenario's more likely to happen that WOULD result in the death of the ships, for example only tonight we killed a carrier that tried to dock at a station but got pulled out short due to a bubble being placed away from the station.
Well, the thing is in lowsec you cant have bubbles, there is no way to prevent them from reaching the docking point.
Having stations as a new point-of-interest for motherships might work in 0.0, but in lowsec it wont, and lowsec is where I see the issue becoming most problematic.
Apart from the changes in sov mechanics (you have to attack stations to grab sov now?), but I havent really looked into those as they do not concern me.
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Lilith Velkor
Minmatar
Beyond Divinity Inc
Beyond Virginity
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Posted - 2009.11.18 23:01:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Lilith Velkor on 18/11/2009 23:03:04
Originally by: Impolite Andevil
I have no idea where you got the idea that those are measured numbers - they are not. They are straight from the missile damage formulas (as stated in the post I referenced).
What he was trying to say is you are comparing expected real dps against raw EFT dps, and not taking engagement range into account. For the projected SC dps you are applying damage reduction, for the dread dps you are comparing it to you are not taking damage reduction into account.
The new citadel torp stats would for example receive about 13% damage reduction from their EFT dps against sieged dreads, more against moving targets, so a Phoenix or Naglfar (may it rest in peace) wouldnt be able to achieve its on-paper dps there.
Then there is the range thing, citadel torps will have a range of roughly 30km if I remember it right, shortrange dread turrets about 50km, while the FBs are much more flexible in that respect.
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Lilith Velkor
Minmatar
Beyond Divinity Inc
Beyond Virginity
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Posted - 2009.11.18 23:37:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Lilith Velkor on 18/11/2009 23:38:08
Originally by: Impolite Andevil
Overall, this concept for supercarriers is just horrible, and there has still been no reason given for why they scrapped the changes that Abathur put together, the players tested, and everyone was happy with.
My personal guess is they took a look at the MS trades and got scared by the sudden spike in demand.
Probably someone then imagined a blob of 20 SCs on the field, dealing 240k dps against capitals, and instapopping HICs that try to pin it down with 40k dps from fighters. Disrupting hostile RR with remote ECM burst, and merrily sitting in unbreakable RR spider.
While I agree the current stats seem to be a bit of a strange decision overall, and would prefer less fighters but a lot more dps from bombers, balancing this without hurting the game in the grand scheme of things is gonna be a very delicate matter, regardless of what players want or think would be best.
Since we will see blobs of 20-30 SCs, even if the gonna cost 15 bill, that is as sure as the sun rising tomorrow.
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